Friday, November 11, 2005

Ahhhhh, Religion!

I love having conversations on religion.

I am a self proclamied atheist and enjoy discussing religion with those that can articulate why they believe in their religion.

This is an interesting thread that I read.

5 comments:

Anonymous said...

I beg to differ that you are an atheist and not religious. Ahteists religiously try to refute others opinions about their religion by seeking some sort of proof. Atheists cannot exist without religion, they need it to explain their own views. Atheists also are looking for their own answers on their existence here on earth. Maybe they believe in the Darwinian theory that we started in a cesspool of amino acids and only the strongest amoebas were the only ones to propegate.

I believe that atheists had some sort of traumatic random event that had a profound impact on their views on religion. I was there on verge of converting to atheism, but i felt that they had no viable explanation as to why they believe thier theory. It is a beautiful world we live in and to waste our time to explain our existence is, well, a waste of time. Accept others views, but don't antagonize them by belittling thier faith based theories. Do I agree with all the views presented to the world through religion? Hell no, if there is a hell. It gives a frame work for people to abide by, even if they accept the fantastical stories that are told through thier respective works of writing.

The Toltecs of ancient Mexico believe that we are here only in passing and this one stage of life in a cycle of life.

I hope you don't return as an insect the way Hinduism states or worse yet as a Democrat. That would be sight to behold

Anonymous said...

This is a response to the previous anonymous response...

Well so much to respond to in that post as I am also an Ahteists so I am just going to take some of the points stated and respond.

You stated:
"Ahteists religiously try to refute others opinions about their religion by seeking some sort of proof"

Ahteists do not seek proof, you can not scientifically proof the non-existence of divine entity. The burden of proof would be to demonstrate that it does exist. Also, my experience is that Ahteists in general do not try to impose their visions to other.. Which is a quite different approach taken by many religious poeple...

you stated:
"Atheists cannot exist without religion, they need it to explain their own views"
Correct in the fact that Atheism would not exist without religion (obviously). Incorrect to stated that they need to explain their own view.

You stated:
"Maybe they believe in the Darwinian theory that we started in a cesspool ..."

Darwinian theory is not a belief: it is a sound and proven SCIENTIFIC fact. Here you are starting the slippery slope of trying to mix science and beliefs... My kids beleive in Santa Claus, they still can not proove he exists....

You stated:
"I believe that atheists had some sort of traumatic random event that had a profound impact on their views on religion"

I THINK it is the other way around: poeple become religious because of non-random events that occur to them... Like brainwashing from the media, parents, society and the very humam nature.

you stated:
"It is a beautiful world we live in and to waste our time to explain our existence is, well, a waste of time"

Agree it is a beautiful world and we should not waste our time on religion. I am not sure how my time spend making this a better place is a waste of time.... If poeple need the pressure of religion to do good in this world, fine with me... but there are many example of very negative things that are driven by religious beleifs.

you state:
"I hope you don't return as an insect the way Hinduism states or worse yet as a Democrat"

This shows utmost ignorance of Hinduism and an even more funny (funny as in ridiculious) view of politics... If Jesus was in America today, he will for sure be a Democrat....

Francisco said...

If Jesus was in America two things would happen. All the Atheist would discredit his being here and secondly, the Republicans would deport him, beucause he is here as an illegal immigrant.

Anonymous said...

Hey Noel,

Just wanted to comment on some of the points made so far.

"Ahteists religiously try to refute others opinions about their religion by seeking some sort of proof."

Spelling notwithstanding, the person has a point. It really depends on the atheist in question. In my opinion, there are three types of atheists. The first type - their atheism stems from logic and reason. Second type - their atheism stems from a reflexive reaction to existing religious/cultural/authority structures. The third type - the sophmoric type, just wants to argue.

Here is my opinion on what makes these types tick:
Type one - exceedingly rare, but they do exist. They are actually quite tolerable, and for the most part come off as "regular" people. For some reason a number of the Biological sciences professionals that I have met fall into this category.

Type two - fairly common. Unfortuntatley, the atheists that fall into this category usually have been hurt or injured by their culture/religion/authority structures and their atheism is a reaction to the pain. Unfortunately, they are also the most "religious" in their atheism.

Type three - also very common. This type of atheist is a fixture in university dorms and the bane of college parties. They are typically smart(er), typically once bullied, but now find they can turn the tables and use their intelligence to become the bully. And atheism is their stick.

I am not going to guess what drives your atheism - only you know for sure. Or maybe you don't even know. I do find it striking (and telling) that you chose to lambast the last person for mis-typing ahteist (sic)just once.

I will say that two people that fascinate me, and probably the two greatest minds of the last five hundred years, Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein, believed in a God. Note that they were independant thinkers, their beliefs came from thought and introspection. They did not just recite the talking points du jour - in fact some of Newton's beliefs were downright heretical (he did not believe in the divinity of Jesus). But they saw the complexity and wonder of this universe - with much greater clarity than you or I - and concluded that there is a God.

Noel Kuriakos said...

I agree with your statement

"The first type - their atheism stems from logic and reason. Second type - their atheism stems from a reflexive reaction to existing religious/cultural/authority structures. The third type - the sophmoric type, just wants to argue.

I would add evidence to #1.

I have encountered all three and it is fun talking to #1 & #2 types and not the #3 type.

As to your comment:

"Isaac Newton and Albert Einstein, believed in a God. Note that they were independant thinkers, their beliefs came from thought and introspection."

Isaac Newton also spent a great deal of time dealing in the black art of alchemy. Seee http://www.alchemylab.com/isaac_newton.htm

So I would place his musings on God in the same vain. Misguided.

Albert Einstein also spend a great deal of his time trying to prove that Heisenberg's uncertainty principle was not correct. (Thus the famous quote "God does not play dice"). See http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/einstein/genius/ for additinal info.

There is also some evidence to suggest that some of his work may not be entirely his own.

So even great thinkers can think about things in the wrong way. Especially about the existence of God.